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03:35Meinmartini"Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?"
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11:27qubodup_qubodup
11:44b0rlandHi, all
11:44b0rlandAny ideas whether the meeting will really happen today?
11:44b0rlanddev team meeting I mean
11:45amo-ej1i don't see why i should not happen
11:46b0rlandOk, just checking in case I missed some discussion
11:47amo-ej1afaik the only discussion on it was on the forum thread
11:55b0rlandok, thanx
11:55b0rlandwill try to attend
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16:10CIA-12FIFE: vtchill * r3043 /branches/active/ (408 files in 92 dirs): Sync with trunk. Also a few minor changes to make the existing map loading branch work correctly with the changes from the merge with the trunk.
16:30CIA-12FIFE: vtchill * r3044 /branches/active/engine_maploader/build/win32/build_environments/visual_studio_9/engine_template.xml: small change to the generator for msvc2008 fife project files to work with c++ map loader
16:34vtchillvtchill_away
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18:26amo-ej1howdy
18:29amo-ej1Meinmartini: what do you mean with 'slots' and 'the integrated portion' ?
18:35shevyhey amo-ej1
18:35shevyhad any cool ideas lately?
18:36MeinmartiniI'll get more info in a minute
18:37MeinmartiniIntegrated...it's integrated into the motherboard
18:37MeinmartiniLooks kind of like this: http://www.behardware.com/medias/photos_news/00/23/IMG0023238.jpg
18:39MeinmartiniThe whole confusing bit about this is that I'm not finding any consistent information at all
18:39amo-ej1first place to check would imo be motherboard manual
18:40MeinmartiniHuh, I don't even know if my desktop came with one
18:40amo-ej1with a motherboard ? :D
18:40Meinmartinimanual :P
18:41amo-ej1is it a brand pc or a diy pc ?
18:41Meinmartinibrand
18:42MeinmartiniIf it was DIY, it'd be much easier to figure out
18:42amo-ej1indeed, but worst comes to worst if you have enough courage you can still try techsupport
18:42MeinmartiniEww
18:43amo-ej1btw, the crossfire has nothing to do with dual monitor setup
18:43MeinmartiniYeah, I don't even know.
18:43MeinmartiniWhen it comes to graphics cards I don't know anything
18:43amo-ej1it's a technology like SMP (mulitprocessor) but then applied to videocards
18:44amo-ej1the main question is, what do you wish to achieve ?
18:45MeinmartiniWell, figuring out if the bus if PCI or PCI-E, because I'm getting inconsistent information about that, too
18:45MeinmartiniHopefully without digging into the tower
18:45amo-ej1pci-e
18:45amo-ej1pci was used on pentium class pc's
18:45amo-ej1agp on pentium II/III class
18:46amo-ej1pci-e on pentium IV class
18:46MeinmartiniI'm mostly looking at this thread: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1404100
18:46amo-ej1although agp could already be pentium class too
18:46MeinmartiniFrom what I'm gathering, does he replace the integrated card with a different one? Or is he using an "available slot" for an add-on type of thing?
18:47amo-ej1if you purchase a video card
18:47amo-ej1this will be a pci-e card
18:47amo-ej1no doubt about this
18:47MeinmartiniRight
18:48amo-ej1and if your pc has extension slots, you'll have for sure pci-e extension
18:48amo-ej1i think that pci should even be rather rare (only used in riser cards and/or for legacy purposes)
18:50MeinmartiniOkay, time to find the model number and check for available slots
18:51Meinmartini"PCI Express 2.0 x16"
18:52MeinmartiniSo any card I get has to be able to support the above spec?
18:52MeinmartiniForgive my n00b-ness
18:52amo-ej1i think you'll have do dig really hard to find an incompatible video card
18:53MeinmartiniHaha
18:53MeinmartiniFair enough
18:53MeinmartiniOkay, so I was probably over-searching or something.
18:53MeinmartiniThe internet is full of too much useless information :P
18:53amo-ej1well the correct sentence is
18:53amo-ej1the internet is full of idiots ;)
18:53MeinmartiniLOL
18:54amo-ej1btw, there seems to be a pci-e 3.0 standard as well
18:54MeinmartiniThanks for your help, though.
18:54amo-ej1ah
18:54amo-ej1pcie 3.0 is scheduled for release in 2010
18:54amo-ej1rather unlikely that it's already on your motherboard ;)
18:55MeinmartiniI bought this computer in February, so I doubt it :P
18:55MeinmartiniIt's a late 2008 model
18:55UH-Guard2Title: File:PCIExpress.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
18:55MeinmartiniThough I should look into expanding my memory at some point
18:55amo-ej1this is a nice image actually
18:55amo-ej1at the bottom there's the legacy PCI slot
18:56amo-ej1and above you see the pcie slots
18:56amo-ej1where x1, x4 x16 is actually the number of serial connections (hence the width of the connector)
18:57amo-ej1if add and external video card (and disable the internal one) that might result in a memory gain as well (since with integrated videocards, the videomemory is typically "shared" (read: stolen from main memory)
18:57MeinmartiniBugger! :O
18:57MeinmartiniIs that done with the BIOS?
18:57MeinmartiniThe enabling and disabling video card
18:57amo-ej1yes
18:59MeinmartiniI see
18:59MeinmartiniMy current card plays Oblivion okay, but I want it to look awesome
18:59MeinmartiniPlus I've been eyeing XBox 360 and PS3...since I have a quad-core processor, and can expand to 8GB RAM...why not just spend money on a graphics card?
18:59MeinmartiniPC has better games anyway :P
19:01amo-ej1well i've been staring at the diablo III wallpaper for over a year now ... still waiting for that better game to come through ;)
19:03MeinmartiniWhen's it coming out?
19:03amo-ej1when it's done :D
19:03Meinmartini:P
19:03MeinmartiniYou should work for marketing
19:04amo-ej1blizzard is doing a great job in creating a hype around it ... every since they announced starcraft II and diablo III
19:04amo-ej1which they did waaaaaaaaaaaay up front
19:04amo-ej1sales of starcraft and diablo II skyrocketed again
19:04amo-ej1i actually encounter those in stores every now and then
19:04MeinmartiniNice
19:04MeinmartiniAre they releasing updated patches?
19:05amo-ej1while I had to threaten several old ladies to actually find a copy of diablo II when it was initially released
19:06amo-ej1(thus, i'm not buying a pc before diablo III is released)
19:08MeinmartiniYou going to get one of those pimped out $2000+ PCs?
19:08MeinmartiniWith 230498GB of RAM?
19:09amo-ej1btw, just looked at a local store here, and they don't have a single pci-e videocard which isn't pcie 2.0 and x16
19:10amo-ej1where is the time that $2000 pc's were 'low end'
19:10MeinmartiniI totally remember that
19:10MeinmartiniI was looking at some really old magazines
19:11MeinmartiniWeak processor, little RAM (less than 100MB) for about $1500
19:11MeinmartiniWIndows 98 machine
19:11MeinmartiniI think it was a Dell
19:13amo-ej1yeah ... we're all getting old :D
19:14amo-ej1my oldest (2y) will grow up and he'll be unable to imagine what a uniprocessor actually is
19:14MeinmartiniWhat's making me laugh is that for the past couple of years, Macs have been taking shots about how bad Vista is, and now Microsoft is playing the "price game" with PCs vs Macs
19:16MeinmartiniIsn't there a meeting starting soon?
19:16amo-ej1mac is ridiculously expensive hardware combined with ridicilously cheap software
19:16amo-ej1if my gmt offset guess is correct, should be in 14 minutes
19:16MeinmartiniThat's what I thought
19:16MeinmartiniI'm GMT-6 with no DST
19:17MeinmartiniSo, essentially GMT-7
19:17Meinmartiniuntil the winter :P
19:17amo-ej1here it's 7:17 pm :D
19:18amo-ej1which makes it gmt+1 if my guess is correct ;)
19:18MeinmartiniWow
19:18MeinmartiniIt's 11:17am here, LOL
19:18MeinmartiniWhere are you?
19:18amo-ej1belgium
19:19MeinmartiniAh
19:19shevycool
19:19shevythe dutch part of it?
19:19amo-ej1sure, ever seen a french capable of speaking any other language than french ? :D
19:20MeinmartiniC'est quoi ta langue maternelle?
19:20MeinmartiniIt's a shame. I did a French minor and I don't even get to use it :(
19:20amo-ej1Le Neerlandais
19:20MeinmartiniI need to move to France
19:21saritormeeting is in an hourish right?
19:21Meinmartini10 minutes
19:22UH-Guard2Title: GMT: Greenwich Mean Time - World Time / Time in every Time Zone (at wwp.greenwichmeantime.com)
19:22saritorwell its a good thing i checked :p
19:22amo-ej1doesn't that site say it's 5:22 pm gmt ?
19:22saritoractually yeah it does
19:22saritorMeinmartini: you live in the US?
19:22MeinmartiniCanada
19:22saritoror in a country that follows DST? :p
19:23MeinmartiniThis province doesn't
19:23MeinmartiniThe rest do. Don't ask me how or why
19:23saritoreh, some US states don't follow it either
19:23amo-ej1here everybody complains about dst twice a year
19:23saritorusually people enjoy it once a year and hate it once
19:24MeinmartiniThe temperature volatility is nuts
19:24saritorat least in the US :p
19:24amo-ej1complaining is the national sport here ;)
19:24saritorha ha
19:24MeinmartiniIt jumps to 15-30 celcius in only a couple of hours.
19:24saritorMeinmartini: which province are you in?
19:24MeinmartiniOr 59-86 farenheit :P
19:24MeinmartiniSaskatchewan
19:25saritorah, cool :)
19:25MeinmartiniNormally from Ontario, but I'm here to do a Masters
19:25saritorone of the ones i haven't been too
19:25MeinmartiniI miss not having the temperature all over the place
19:25saritorah cool
19:25MeinmartiniAnd humid, gross summers :P
19:26amo-ej1here there is some national hype which consists out of migrating to canada
19:26saritoreh... i only live like 2 hours south of Ottowa, near the border in the US, and this summer we had literally 1 week of temps over 80F
19:26saritorbtw, i have horrible spelling of actual names of cities so forgive me that is off
19:26MeinmartiniKingston?
19:27saritorfurther north than that
19:27saritorclose to Prescott
19:28saritorbrb
19:29MeinmartiniK
19:34Meinmartiniwelcome
19:34MeinmartiniBarra's not even here...
19:34MeinmartiniHow long should we wait?
19:34amo-ej156 minutes ?
19:35saritorMeinmartini: still got an hour to go
19:35amo-ej1till it actually is 18:30 gmt ;)
19:35MeinmartiniReally?
19:35MeinmartiniCrap
19:36MeinmartiniIt really is only 5:30
19:36MeinmartiniHaha
19:36ZenbitzI am driving home. Be there in about 10 min
19:37MeinmartiniDon't text and drive! :O
19:37amo-ej1then you'll only be 50 minutes early
19:40MeinmartiniI almost want to go play DDO for a bit but I have some assignments I should work on :P
19:42or1andovhi!
19:42Sirren_Hello everybody
19:42or1andovwakes up
19:42MeinmartiniMorning/afternoon/evening wherever you all are :P
19:43Sirren_Late afternoon for me. Anything going on?
19:43MeinmartiniNot much
19:43MeinmartiniSome moron (namely me) doesn't know how to read GMT and is here too early
19:44Meinmartini:D
19:44Sirren_Exactly how much early?
19:45Meinmartini1 hour
19:45MeinmartiniI thought we were supposed to start 15 mins ago
19:45Sirren_In the morning? Ouch..
19:45or1andovMeinmartini: was it daylight savings that messed you up? cause that almost happened to me
19:46or1andovi thought i was GMT - 8
19:46or1andovbut turns out, just - 7
19:47or1andovso, i need to go afk for a while, i need to go to a friend's house and help him and his wife move some stuff within their house, but i'll bring my laptop so i can still be in on the meeting
19:47MeinmartiniProbably
19:47or1andovi'm being voluntold
19:48Sirren_Ok, have a nice time Orlandov
19:48MeinmartiniLater
19:49or1andovsee you in a few!
19:49or1andovor1andov|afk
19:50Sirren_So it's just us two? I see Superfluid on the forums
19:50CheeseRead error: 110 (Connection timed out)
19:50MeinmartiniNo, there are more
19:50ZenbitzRemote closed the connection
19:51SirrenI see the nicks on the left bar, but..
19:54SirrenUhm, let's see.. I was going to model Gaspard's former soviet soldier. The uniform looks like the 1988 "afganka"
19:55Sirren_I'm currently gathering photo reference. I was thinking about making a ELL version
19:56Zenbitzwow I totally an hour off
19:56ZenbitzI even double checked
19:56Sirren_Maybe with tsarist colours white/emerald green. Maybe brown boots..
19:56amo-ej1zenbitz, you're not the only one ;)
19:57Meinmartinieveryone here pretty much is
19:57Sirren_Well, I had to check the correct hour today..
19:57Zenbitzthat seems odd
19:57amo-ej1sirren those last renders you posted were really need, how long did it take you to make the male version
19:57amo-ej1once you had the female ?
19:58amo-ej1erm
19:58amo-ej1neat
19:58Sirren_One hour less or more. I had to tweak a couple of details and had no clear idea
19:58Sirren_The female took some three hours, coat folds are modelled
19:59SirrenKeep in mind I have a bunch of base models.
20:01amo-ej1even if you summoned the by using voodoo, the result looks very nice
20:01Sirren_Well, every now and then I tweack them too
20:02Sirren_The current trunk topology is a kind of mess, but it works
20:20amo-ej1evening barra
20:20Sirren_Hello Barra
20:22barra_libraryheya lads!
20:22barra_libraryjust in time
20:24barra_libraryare there any topics for the meeting that you would like to talk about?
20:25SirrenYes, of course..
20:25barra_libraryshoot sirren!
20:25barra_libraryping Zenbitz
20:25Sirren_How many characters for techdemo1?
20:25barra_librarydoesn't look like NOH will show up today :-/
20:26MeinmartiniWho's active right now?
20:26MeinmartiniIn the room, I mean
20:26saritorpong
20:26amo-ej1is
20:26barra_libraryme!
20:26Sirren_Me
20:26Meinmartini5
20:27Zenbitzhey
20:27amo-ej16 and counting ;)
20:28Wr4i7h (n=abc@89-180-168-211.net.novis.pt) left irc:
20:28Kaydeth_workpresent
20:29Kaydeth_workKaydeth
20:30Memphisssas (n=Jeha@e178230028.adsl.alicedsl.de) left irc:
20:31barra_libraryback
20:31barra_libraryanyway, let's wait 5 more minutes and start after that
20:31Sirren_Fine
20:32Meinmartinihttp://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/halolz-dot-com-portal-kanyewest-glados.jpg
20:32or1andov|afkor1andov
20:32or1andovo hai
20:32MeinmartiniHeya
20:32or1andovhow are you all today?
20:33saritorgreetings
20:33barra_librarygood, still busy though :-/
20:34MeinmartiniI've spent an hour doing this analysis and I hardly feel like I've put a dent in it :/
20:34Sirren_Slow, restful day..
20:35ZenbitzI guess I would like to get an update on the following:
20:35Zenbitz1) what goes in tech demo
20:35Zenbitz2) what goes in "big" demo (milestone 2?)
20:35Zenbitz3) What game areas the programming team is going to tackle next
20:35Zenbitzand what mechanics need to be developed for them
20:36Zenbitzping
20:36saritorZenbitz: pong
20:36or1andovpong
20:36barra_libraryalrighty, so let's start!
20:36Zenbitzsorry my cable model conked out there for a minute
20:36barra_libraryI'll take the notes at the wiki
20:36UH-Guard2Title: Meeting:2009/09/19 - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net)
20:37barra_libraryare there any proposals with which department to start?
20:37or1andovthanks barra_library
20:37Zenbitzlets go in order!
20:37barra_libraryoki, so let's start with the programming department
20:38Kaydethyey programming
20:38barra_librarythe dialog engine topic was my proposal, we could start with that
20:38barra_libraryAFAIR amo-ej1, or1andov & bretzel are currently working in this field
20:39or1andovi have a branch with the dialogue engine integrated with the game
20:39or1andovall it needs now is adding all the api documentation and comments
20:40or1andovshould i try to get that in asap so others can start messing around with it?
20:40amo-ej1and definition/documentation of the data files
20:41barra_libraryI checked out an early version with the beer quest, that one was a nice start, haven't seen the latest version yet
20:41amo-ej1which will be the main input for an editor gui
20:41barra_libraryheya b0rland!
20:41barra_libraryjust talking about the dialog engine
20:41b0rlandHi, guys
20:41b0rlandAm I 1 hour late or just 10 mins late?
20:42or1andovbarra_library: yeah, so that script is working within the game now
20:42Sirren_Uhu? Beer quest? did I miss something? (Hello B0rland)
20:42or1andovb0rland: 10 mins :)
20:42KaydethIt's not in the official version of the game Sirren. So no you haven't :)
20:42barra_libraryhttp://www.unknown-horizons.org/parpglogs/?action=view&chan=parpg&date=2009-09-19&mark=319#319
20:42b0rlandWow, I must be real lucky today
20:42barra_library10 mins b0rland
20:42b0rlandcatching up
20:42Kaydethdo we have Story writers ready to make use of the engine?
20:42barra_libraryyes and no
20:43barra_libraryin theory NOH (NineOfHearts) and DaveMatney are still semi active but I haven't seen them around lately
20:43Zenbitzwhat is the status of the interface to create dialog?
20:43barra_librarybut it's a good point Kaydeth: in the end, somebody has to use this engine and test it by writing dialog
20:44MeinmartiniDo we have any story reps here other than Zenbitz?
20:44Zenbitzdid we go with the YAML implementation?
20:44barra_libraryAFAICT Zenbitz is the only one who's around in here today
20:44or1andovit seems to be the implementation furthest along
20:44or1andovi was thinking, in the short term we could be using the wiki to rough out quests
20:45shevyheya
20:45amo-ej1imo the dialogue is only a very small part of 'following the sotry'
20:45amo-ej1story
20:45barra_libraryplease elaborate amo-ej1
20:45Zenbitzyeah I think it's hard to write dialog without other mechanics implemented
20:45amo-ej1dialogue engine is only a quest/item dispatcher
20:45shevyor1andov could make this similar to NPC, "proposed quests", and "approved quests" etc...
20:45Zenbitzplus we would need to test game state integration etc.
20:46or1andovshevy: yeah exactly. if we have a rough outline of quests in the worst case i could transcribe them to the YAML
20:46amo-ej1and dispatching quests/items is only a detail when it comes to the 'big picture'
20:46or1andovyeah
20:46shevydo we have a fleshed out main story btw? :)
20:46or1andovso, what do we need next?
20:46amo-ej1a fleshed out main story ;)
20:47barra_librarythis would have been easier with NOH and Dave around as well
20:47barra_librarythere have been two main storyline proposals and the latest plan was to see how parts could be merged
20:47MeinmartiniWasn't there a deadline for this?
20:47amo-ej1and programming wise, we the mapping of the mechanics of that main story into game state etc
20:47KaydethI think it might serve us better to concentrate on a small demo to exercise all the parts we need
20:47or1andovi dont think we necessarily need a full story planned out- just enough for a tech demo
20:47barra_libraryyep, that was the original plan
20:48barra_librarythat's a good point Kaydeth & or1andov
20:48ZenbitzI think there is no need to worry about the "main" story and or plot
20:48Zenbitzwe should just get some location done with some stuff to do.
20:48barra_libraryyep, certainly not for a first release until the end of the year
20:48Zenbitzif it is later integrated with the main story - great, if not, oh well
20:48or1andovZenbitz++
20:48barra_libraryalrighty, noted
20:48or1andovwe're just trying to bootstrap the game right now, imo
20:49MeinmartiniThough it's better to get some sort of story rolling for a higher-level demo later this year.
20:49Sirren_I agree with Zenbitz
20:49barra_libraryI don't think we will release more than one demo until the end of the year Meinmartini
20:49shevywhee Sirren is here :D
20:49amo-ej1yes, but for bootstrapping the game you would need state behavior, logic to determine your progress, to track progress etc
20:49MeinmartiniBut we're talking about programming, so I'll try to stay on topic :O
20:49Zenbitzwe do need to determine the scope of demo 1 and demo 2
20:49Sirren_hello there. Couln't miss this
20:49or1andovamo-ej1: right, be we can do a small scale version of that
20:50Sirren_couldn't, actually
20:50b0rlandWe can have just one or two demo quests
20:50Zenbitzbut the scope of the demo targets determines programming effort
20:50or1andovplan out some quests that excercise all that logic
20:50amo-ej1agree
20:50amo-ej1but that is definition of scope then ;)
20:50or1andovfed ex quests, talk quests
20:50barra_librarydo you think that 2 quests sounds somewhat realistic until the end of the year?
20:50Sirren_Dialogue only quests would be a start
20:50amo-ej1beer quests !
20:51barra_libraryseconded!
20:51or1andovyay beer
20:51MeinmartiniWhat are we voting on?
20:51or1andovsimple beer quest for the demo
20:51Kaydethshould be more like moonshine quests
20:51Sirren_Are game objects implemented? Fetch me some beer, son..
20:51barra_librarybut seriously: two quests for a first release until the end of the year sounds realistic to me
20:51Zenbitzbeer is easier to make than moonshine
20:51Zenbitzyou have to make it first (or at least "mash")
20:51or1andovbut does a post apocalyptic world have grain?
20:51b0rlandBasically it's one half moonshine
20:52shevydont take away the beer :(
20:52barra_libraryso some beer fetching quest for the first techdemo?
20:52Zenbitzit has _something_
20:52or1andovsure
20:52Sirren_I think you can turn into alcohol pretty much everything
20:52or1andovmmm fermented potatoes
20:52b0rlandgood idea
20:52or1andovand berries
20:52amo-ej1as long as there's sugar ;)
20:52shevyperhaps old alcohol in a container... i mean, wine doesnt get really old :D
20:52Zenbitzyeah, any sugar. Potatoe beer!
20:52amo-ej1and nog oxygen ;)
20:52MeinmartiniIsn't vodka made with potatoes?
20:52Zenbitzwow that would be the worst drink ever
20:52or1andovpotato vodka is
20:53Zenbitzyeah, but vodka's distilled
20:53barra_libraryanyway, back to topic; so let's say: we'll try to have two more or less sophisticated quests for techdemo 1 until the end of the year?
20:53or1andovbarra_library: i think that's reasonable
20:53Meinmartini+1
20:53amo-ej1yep
20:53b0rlandSounds realistic
20:53Zenbitzok.
20:53Sirren_Ok
20:53shevythe first quest could be minimal showcasing what can be done
20:53amo-ej1then we don't need to worry on a dialogue editor frontend this year either
20:54b0rlandWe'll need to work on inventory implementation
20:54Zenbitzshould we have a 'wilderness adventure' in demo1 also?
20:54barra_librarythat would be one point, you have to transport it somehow
20:54b0rlandI'm not sure we can make any meaningful quests without inventory
20:54shevyhe could pull the beer ;)
20:54barra_libraryfully agree b0rland
20:54or1andovneed a simple inventory/object/looting model
20:54Zenbitzstory aside: what else goes in the demo.
20:54barra_librarythere is already some inventory-related functionality in place
20:54Zenbitzyes
20:54Zenbitzwe need character definitions
20:55Zenbitzskills
20:55barra_librarydemo1 = techdemo1 Zenbitz
20:55Zenbitzstats
20:55barra_librarysorry
20:55barra_librarydemo1 != techdemo1
20:55shevywe could put one or two official NPCs into one of those demos
20:55barra_librarymea culpa
20:55ZenbitzOK - one demo at a time
20:55amo-ej1for some simple questing, character evolution shouldn't be needed
20:55Zenbitzfor the TECHdemo
20:55or1andovyeah, i think stats would be better in the 2nd techdemo
20:55b0rlandbarra_library: yes, parts of it are already there. Just need to make sure we have enough. It's quite simplistic atm.
20:55amo-ej1say the simple quest for now could in fact be like a tutorial
20:56or1andovbecause that will require more refinement
20:56MeinmartiniSo for the techdemo, we'll need some form of inventory and some small quests, which involves getting the dialogue engine working.
20:56barra_libraryyep, I agree that we can leave that out for the first release
20:56amo-ej1with simple tutorials you always learn basics of movement, inventory etc
20:56MeinmartiniDoes that sum it up?
20:56shevyyeah
20:56Zenbitzit will be pure fedex - no skill rolls or character differentation?
20:56MeinmartiniLet's try to focus on one thing
20:56MeinmartiniWe'll tinker with it after
20:56Zenbitzobv. no combat
20:56barra_libraryI think that would be the simplest option Zenbitz
20:56or1andovyeah
20:57or1andovonce that functionality settles down it will be easier to implement combat and stats
20:57Zenbitzclothing? environmental effects? (I am just listing stuff - not stating an opinion)
20:57or1andovand we'll have a better idea of what direction we want to take the game in
20:57shevyclothing could be nice
20:57shevyso actor could wear, or remove, a simple cloak for instance
20:57barra_libraryit depends on what you're talking about Zenbitz: the visual side or the gameplay side
20:57or1andovi think that would be too big of a problem
20:57amo-ej1inventory -> objects -> clothing ... that doesn't seem to strange
20:57shevybut i guess that is also partially inventory
20:58barra_libraryyou could have ingame clothing that affects the gameplay but makes not visual difference
20:58or1andovoops
20:58or1andov*not too big
20:58ZenbitzI meant gameplay... obviously the models aren't naked
20:58or1andovprobably could be done when the inventory work happens
20:58Zenbitzprobably skip it for now
20:58barra_libraryyep, my primary concern was that new clothes require extra animations
20:58or1andovi wouldn't be changing the sprites or anything
20:58Sirren_Exactly
20:58Zenbitzwhat art / level assets do we need?
20:58or1andovthat'd be more work
20:58Zenbitz1 PC
20:58barra_libraryat least if they should make a visual difference
20:58ZenbitzX NPCs
20:58Zenbitz1 "map"
20:58Zenbitzsome buildings
20:59amo-ej1bottles ;)
20:59Sirren_Trees/logs
20:59barra_libraryobviously :-)
20:59b0rlandand potatoes
20:59Zenbitzgrain (or whatever we are making beer out of)
20:59or1andovif we could get sirren's new npc sprites in that would be so rad
20:59or1andovwe could have a few npc's milling around
20:59Zenbitzyeast
20:59Zenbitzwater
20:59barra_librarythe number of NPCs does largely depend on how many sirren think he could animate until the end of the year
21:00or1andovno yeast, lambic beer all the way!
21:00Zenbitzquest is just to obtain the necessary ingredients and equipement
21:00shevydo you think we could see him http://wiki.parpg.net/Doctor_Felix_Weir in game for the second demo?
21:00UH-Guard2Title: Doctor Felix Weir - Post-Apocalyptic RPG wiki (at wiki.parpg.net)
21:00Zenbitzand show the townsfolk how to make beer
21:00barra_libraryI'll do some promo after that weekend, that we're still looking for animators but they're hard to find
21:00or1andovyeah
21:00barra_libraryif he fits in shevy, he would prolly need an extra model, so that's a drawback
21:00or1andovis so grateful for Sirren's work
21:00Sirren_Still experimenting. With no combat? I think some 5 animations per character.. Rigging is the longest part..
21:00Zenbitzchoice and consequences!
21:01Zenbitzyou can make your beer using "wild" yeast (like a lambic)
21:01b0rlandIf we're short on animations, we can just start with static sprites for some npcs
21:01or1andovconsequences++
21:01Zenbitzor if you look carefully, you can score some off some old bread
21:01Sirren_.. Seven ready characters. I think I can do that.
21:01barra_libraryso should we try to change the quest into: "get me some alcohol" but leave the choice what alcohol to make to the player?
21:01Zenbitzbtw, I work for the (brewer's) yeast genome project:
21:02or1andovwow, awesome!
21:02shevyZenbitz is influenced by his surroundings ;D
21:02or1andovi'm a home brewer :D
21:02shevyhow can you bear that smell btw :P
21:02or1andovsmells great :)
21:02Zenbitzbarra - that makes sense
21:02barra_librarythat would be at least some choice :-) not sure if alternative alcohol would offer any consequences though
21:02Zenbitzwell, one form would taste better
21:03barra_libraryif you screwed up the brewing process, the NPC who gave you the quest could go blind or die
21:03or1andovhaha
21:03Zenbitzwe could have different types of input grain too
21:03barra_librarynot sure how realistic that is
21:03MeinmartiniLOL
21:03ZenbitzI don't think you can actually "brew" methanol
21:03Meinmartini"Do you want to add antifreeze? Yes? No?"
21:03barra_librarydistill is the better term I guess :-)
21:04shevyHow about animations, like to have the character creep for some time to reach some area?
21:04ZenbitzOK, later!
21:04ZenbitzI will start a forum page on this in Writing
21:04barra_librarycoolio, thanks Zenbitz
21:04Zenbitzshevy - you mean crawl??
21:04shevyyeah
21:04Zenbitzwe have to be careful - no skills (like stealth)
21:04Zenbitzany artists here?
21:05barra_libraryI think we can leave out crawling for the first release
21:05Sirren_Only me, AFAIK
21:05shevySirren i think
21:05or1andovwe should probably try to focus on assets we'll use in the techdemo
21:05or1andovsince animator time is a limited resource
21:05shevy:)
21:05barra_libraryanyway, let's agree upon the following the: the first techdemo will offer two quests, one is about brewing / distilling alcohol for one NPC
21:05barra_libraryand it should be released until the end of the year
21:06vtchill_away (n=jesse@pool-96-231-128-83.washdc.east.verizon.net) left irc:
21:06shevyonly one release this year?
21:06amo-ej1perhaps somebody should work out a proposal of the techdemo and put it on the wiki or so
21:06barra_librarygood point or1andov, the writers should flesh out the possible options for the two quests; after that we could compile a list of required assets & functionality from that
21:07Zenbitzshevy - it's almost october
21:07amo-ej1that should define the quests and from that the required artwork/animations/.... should be deducted
21:07barra_librarythat's the plan shevy, I think having two releases is not realistic for the timespan left
21:07shevykk
21:07barra_libraryyep, thinking along the same lines amo-ej1
21:07or1andovSirren: how possible would it be to get the sprites you have done so far into the game?
21:07barra_librarycould you include that point in your writing board post Zenbitz ?
21:08barra_library(fleshing out the two demo quests)
21:08ZenbitzI was going to make two posts - one for each quest
21:08Zenbitzany ideas for second quest?
21:08Sirren_I have to rig the characters and render the sprites. Then someone has to add the characters in a map
21:08amo-ej1(and personally i'm in favor of making these demo quests, something that in the future can be reused as some tutorial)
21:08or1andovSirren: i thought you had done some already - from the posts i saw on the forums?
21:08Sirren_Sorry.. It IS possible
21:09shevyZenbitz well i think something more advanced for the second would be cool... be it skill usage, or combat or a complex dialogue stuff
21:09SirrenNo, I simply rendered a few orientations to see them in action
21:09or1andovahh gotcha
21:09Zenbitzhow about a cure sickness quest?
21:09barra_libraryhmm something like a murder quest Zenbitz ?
21:09barra_librarydialog murder quest, that is
21:09Zenbitzcan't murder - no combat
21:09shevyhehe
21:09barra_libraryasking around and searching for clues
21:09Sirren_Poison?
21:09shevypoison food!
21:10barra_librarynah, something like "somebody has been murdered", find the murder by asking around and searching for clues
21:10or1andovbarra_library: i like that
21:10Zenbitzdoesn't seem very post apocalyptic for me
21:10Zenbitzhow about an ACTUAL fed ex!
21:10barra_librarygood point Zenbitz
21:10ZenbitzYou have to deliver a letter!
21:10Zenbitzlike Costner in the Postman!
21:10or1andovlol
21:11shevythat sounds easy
21:11ZenbitzI mean, it's just a tech demo
21:11barra_libraryin this case we would rather need two locations?
21:11Zenbitzwell, we could make the deliveree really hard to find
21:11Zenbitzlike at the bottom of a well
21:11b0rland...dead
21:11shevyhehe
21:11shevyskill check for climbing!
21:11Zenbitzno skill checks in the demo!
21:11shevyawww :(
21:12amo-ej1well the variations are endless here, finding a missing person, collecting some ingredients, fetching some items, doing some garden work, ...
21:12barra_libraryI don't really mind any fedex quests for the techdemo, in the end we'll have to go for something simplistic anyway
21:12barra_librarymissing person sounds pretty nice
21:12ZenbitzI like that the stupid fedex quesrt is actually a fedex delivery
21:13or1andovthe beer quest seems close to that though
21:13barra_libraryalrighty, so let's go for the letter quest?
21:13barra_libraryhmm good point
21:13Sirren_Wait, all this requires scripting. Do we already have a script editor? And a set scripting language? Python?
21:13shevyyeah they seem quite similar in what we can showcase
21:13barra_librarythe 2nd quest should be different in nature
21:13Zenbitzwell, we'll post it and if some actual writer has a good idea we can use that
21:13amo-ej1sirren, that's part of the dialogue engine
21:13amo-ej1(not the editor :D )
21:13barra_libraryyep Sirren, it will be implemented in python
21:13or1andovwhat about if you had to deliver a letter, the deliveree is dead?
21:14barra_libraryI'll let the programmers worry about the details *g*
21:14or1andovthen you find out what happened to them or something
21:14barra_librarythat sounds like fun!
21:14or1andovmaybe find some clue on their corpse
21:14amo-ej1yeah iterative quests
21:14barra_libraryI'm all for it, what do you think Zenbitz ?
21:14Sirren_Alcohol brewing went bad, maybe
21:14or1andovlol
21:14shevyor someone stole the alcohol
21:14Zenbitzsirren - the two quests should not be ordered
21:15Sirren_Oh.
21:15or1andovgood point Zenbitz
21:15Zenbitzalthough they could have different endings depending on which you did first!
21:15ZenbitzC&C
21:15or1andovthat's an interesting twist
21:15Zenbitzor if not endings then dialogs
21:15Zenbitzbut lets not get too crazy.
21:15Sirren_Yep, replayability
21:15Zenbitzwe have an ACTUAL game to make
21:15or1andov:)
21:15amo-ej1jay, a pain in the ass to develop and test :D
21:16barra_libraryso what about the 2nd quest Zenbitz ?
21:16MeinmartiniThe more we try to complicate things, the less likely this will get done :S
21:16barra_librarysimple fedex quest from a to b?
21:16or1andovMeinmartini: true
21:16amo-ej12nd Meinmartini
21:16barra_librarywhere's the challenge in it? there should be at least some small hurdle to overcome
21:16ZenbitzNPC gives you a package
21:16MeinmartiniWe shouldn't concentrate on making the greatest game
21:16Zenbitzsays "I am afraid of NPC-B". Can you find NPC-C and deliver this?
21:16MeinmartiniI'm not saying make it suck, let's just not kill ourselves :P
21:17amo-ej1we can make a great game, but the target in time should not be the first demo/this year
21:17b0rlandwell, it's not the game yet
21:17barra_libraryfor the alcohol quest you have to find the ingredient and brew / distill them
21:17ZenbitzNPC-C is dead. You have some options (bring package back, open package yourself, find NPC-C's "killer" and give him package
21:17b0rlandit's just the demo
21:17barra_libraryoki, so searching for the NPC would be part of the challenge
21:17Zenbitzbarra - yes the "fun" is that there are a few (3-4) different combinations and they make one of the following:
21:17barra_librarythis would feature dialog as well, asking around where the NPC can be found
21:17Zenbitz1) "poison" (makes you sick)
21:18Zenbitz2) undrinkable
21:18shevywell we could concentrate on the first quest
21:18Zenbitz3) gets you drunk but terrible
21:18Zenbitz4) quite palatable
21:18ZenbitzOK, lets not write quests in the meeting. We'll be here all day
21:18or1andovyeah we can take that offline
21:18barra_libraryoki, so that sounds like a good start for two quests
21:18Zenbitzbut for the "town" we are going to need at least a few buildings
21:18Zenbitzand a well (where the body is)
21:19amo-ej1indeed, put some proposal up in the wiki and review it on the forum
21:19barra_library1. alcohol quest; 2. fedex letter quest
21:19or1andovyeah... buildings
21:19barra_libraryfleshing out these proposals is up to the writing department
21:19Kaydethdoes anyone know who would be interested in designing the map?
21:19barra_libraryonce they've started to flesh them out, we can compile a list of functionality and assets that will be needed for techdemo 1
21:19Zenbitzwe also need "descirptive" text for objects and places (I think we have this)
21:19barra_libraryI could take care of that Kaydeth
21:20barra_libraryat least I've worked with FIFEdit in the past
21:20b0rlandHow many maps would we need?
21:20Kaydethstart with one
21:20barra_librarydepends on the writing department b0rland
21:20b0rlandto make the "searching" reasonable
21:20barra_libraryand how they flesh out the proposals
21:20amo-ej1i would say at least 2
21:20Zenbitzlike "you find rotten yams, this could possibly make some beer-like substance, but you are not sure"
21:20Kaydetha village or mobile settlement of some kind
21:20amo-ej1so we can test load/switch/teleport
21:20b0rlandyeh
21:20Zenbitzgood idea
21:20MeinmartiniIf it interests some of you guys, I could be a "quest writer"
21:21amo-ej1e.g. one village and one dungeon or so
21:21ZenbitzYou are hired mm
21:21MeinmartiniLike actually flesh out dialogues and stuff :P
21:21Zenbitzyou work on "fedex/murder" quest
21:21ZenbitzI'll work on beer quest
21:21or1andovso, i think one problem that wel currently have is that the map editor mangles maps
21:21Zenbitz(not that we cannot offer ideas)
21:22Zenbitzaction item for writers: how many places and NPCs do we need for artists
21:22barra_libraryyep or1andov
21:22barra_libraryhas to be something PARPG related, as it works for FIFE maps
21:22or1andovi'm not sure, but it must be stripping out some parpg related meta data
21:23Kaydeththe only problem is that object information isn't handled by the map editor
21:23barra_librarydoes anyone would like to look into the map editor map mangling issues to identify the cause of the issues?
21:23Cheese3the map saver strips out objects not needed in the map
21:23barra_libraryso what options do we have to address that?
21:23Kaydethwe'll need to write our own editor to handle it. but we could work around it for now
21:23saritoraye, you can create a map with the FIFE engine, but right now other objects have to be added by hand
21:23Cheese3do you have an example of the problem?
21:24barra_libraryI guess it happens with map.xml?
21:24barra_library(the standard PARPG map)
21:24saritoraye, if you look at map.xml
21:24saritoryou will see that there is a PARPG object layer
21:24barra_libraryin this case you could check out our files from SVN and load map.xml into FIFEdit Cheese3
21:24KaydethCheese3: we have extra instance attributes in our maps
21:24or1andovwhat if a map could be edited with the fife editor, and then we ran make on it and it smushed in our custom objects in their own layers?
21:24Kaydethexample: <i x="-4.0" o="crate" z="0.0" y="-6.0" r="0" id="crate02" object_type="WoodenCrate" is_open="False" locked="False" name="A dirty old crate" text="A crate that is covered in grime and dirt. There doesn't seem to be anything remarkable about it"></i>
21:25Kaydeththe editor doesn't understand the extra stuff and it can't write it either
21:25Cheese3ok.. so you need custom user data for your objects
21:25Kaydethyep
21:26Cheese3you would probably need to write a plugin to the editor and write your own map loader/saver
21:26or1andovcould we use the map editor for the basic ground layers, and then have some process that puts in our custom objects into the xml?
21:26or1andovuntil we get the real editor working?
21:26or1andovnot sure what the best way forward is
21:26Kaydethyeah that would be a work around
21:27barra_libraryI think the plugin option would be the best long term solution
21:27barra_librarynot sure how complicated it would be
21:27barra_libraryany idea Cheese3 ?
21:27or1andovhow easy are editor plugins?
21:27Cheese3not that hard, I hope
21:27barra_libraryFIFE\trunk\clients\editor\plugins
21:28Kaydethok. we'll look into and see if it can solve the problem
21:28or1andovyeah, n maybe that can be an action item
21:28or1andovto look into that
21:28barra_libraryaction item?
21:29Cheese3how do you load objects from the map, currently?
21:29Kaydethwe wrote our map parser, based on the FIFE parser
21:29Kaydethour own*
21:30Cheese3ah, then you are halfway there =)
21:30Cheese3just write your own saver as well
21:30b0rlandhehe
21:30barra_librarydoes anyone look into that field?
21:30barra_library* want to
21:30saritori will
21:31saritorsince im already dealing with map loading/saving trying to get doors implemented
21:31or1andovsaritor++
21:31barra_libraryalrighty, so saritor will take a look into it
21:32barra_libraryany other topics programming-related that we should talk about?
21:32Zenbitzdo we need load/save functionality for tech demo?
21:32Kaydethit's on our list
21:32saritorto an extent i would say yes
21:32barra_libraryI guess it depends on how hard it would be to implement
21:32or1andovdidn't it used to work?
21:33Zenbitzwhere is list?
21:33barra_libraryat some point yes
21:33Zenbitzhow long are we going to go today?
21:33UH-Guard2Title: Milestone Techdemo 1 PARPG project tracker (at parpg-trac.cvsdude.com)
21:33barra_librarymeeting time Zenbitz ?
21:34amo-ej1also in favor of getting load/save functional
21:34amo-ej1this is something rather basic that we should get functional from the beginning
21:34or1andovyeah, if it's easy i think we should
21:34Sirren_It would be nice
21:34barra_libraryif you think it's a realistic aim for the first techdemo, I'm all for it
21:34or1andovif it turns out to be a rat hole, we can always defer to later
21:34barra_libraryI can see that it could give us a lot of headaches later on amo-ej1, so I think it's a good proposal to take care of it early
21:35barra_libraryalrighty!
21:35barra_libraryanything else programming related?
21:36barra_libraryif not, we can move on to the graphics department
21:36Sirren_Yay
21:36b0rlandI think to sum it up, we'll need to make sure all the above is there in trac and marked as techdemo 1
21:36b0rlandI don't mean right now
21:36b0rlandbut eventually
21:36or1andovyes
21:36amo-ej1asap ;)
21:36barra_libraryyep, good point b0rland
21:36barra_libraryI think the majority of the tickets can be created once we have an idea about the quests and what kind of assets they will require
21:37barra_libraryat least if we want to have tickets for assets as well
21:37barra_librarywould you mind using trac for assets as well Sirren?
21:37barra_librarye.g. having tickets that describe that graphical assets will be needed for each milestone
21:37Sirren_No, I don't think it'd be a problem
21:37Zenbitzso in summary - we don't need any (specific) mechanics developed before the end of the year?
21:37Zenbitzif "inventory" needs more work, let me know
21:38barra_librarymechanics-wise we'll need: inventory, looting, dialog
21:38barra_libraryanything else?
21:38Zenbitzdoes dialog have mechanics?
21:38b0rlandBarter?
21:38amo-ej1dialogs needs to interact with those
21:38Zenbitzand what do you mean by looting?
21:38Zenbitzbrb
21:39amo-ej1taking stuff from crates/npcs
21:39shevyto pick up items from some container, especially dead npcs
21:39barra_librarypicking up items from the ground, containers, NPCs
21:39saritorI have a question actually, how comfortable is everyone with using context menus for performing all actions?
21:39barra_librarylike in Fallout?
21:40barra_libraryright click opens context menu?
21:40shevysaritor I'd love to have keybindings to them as well in addition
21:40amo-ej1yeah, but context menus can be awkward
21:40saritorbarra_library: i guess more specifically
21:40b0rlandshevy++
21:40amo-ej1e.g. when a character is moving
21:40saritorshould they pop up only whent the character is at near the location of whatever object?
21:40barra_libraryI think a combination of context menus and keybindings would be good
21:40amo-ej1or when the character is standing still
21:41barra_libraryI would prefer the Fallout option: the cursor changes when you hover over an object you can interact with
21:41barra_librarywe might be talking about different context menus though :-/
21:41shevy:)
21:41saritorfor example
21:41saritorright now you hover over a box
21:41barra_librarylet me find a screenshot
21:41shevyi was thinking about context menus as part of some <action> the actor can do
21:42saritorand it shows the name of the box, then when you right click the context menu pops up
21:42b0rlandtries to recall how it worked it Baldur series
21:43barra_libraryyou basically got these options how to interact with the door object
21:43saritorok i gotcha
21:43Zenbitzdo we really need mechanics to take stuff from crates if we are not (yet) implementing any skills?
21:43shevyyeah and left click on the door was <open> the door right?
21:43amo-ej1Zenbitz: if we want to carry things around (e.g. beer quest,) i guess so
21:43barra_libraryI think there is confusion about the term mechanics Zenbitz
21:43b0rlandZenbitz: I think barra_library meant something like "programming implementation"
21:43shevyor was that double-left click hmm
21:44Zenbitzyes, yes, now I understand
21:44barra_libraryyes and no
21:44Zenbitzwell, if you need "rules" for any of it just let me know at forums.
21:44ZenbitzI will be in England all next week
21:44barra_libraryI wanted to say: all gameplay elements need to be described, how they work
21:44barra_libraryin this sense they are game mechanics
21:45b0rlandInventory is currently documented quite well, afair
21:45barra_libraryas looting is done differently in different games, we will have to agree upon how looting will work in PARPG
21:45Zenbitzwe should probably make a different name for it
21:45Zenbitzto distinguish
21:45barra_libraryhmm to me both are mechanics
21:46amo-ej1"borrowing"
21:46barra_libraryhmm
21:46ZenbitzI guess the question is whether or not you need me to make up fancy rules for it!
21:47barra_libraryI think there is a certain difference between mechanics as game world rules and mechanics as user interface rules
21:47ZenbitzI agree they are both technically "mechanics"
21:47barra_librarybasically game world mechanics and user interface mechanics
21:47barra_libraryboth need to be properly described though
21:47Meinmartiniping or1andov
21:48MeinmartiniWait, we're talking graphics, nevermind. Duh.
21:48Meinmartini:P
21:48Meinmartinifails
21:48ZenbitzI have to leave in about 15 minutes!
21:48barra_librarysorry, I think we went a bit off topic
21:48barra_libraryjust trying to get an idea what we were talking about
21:48shevyhehe
21:49barra_libraryso should we rather move the context menu question to the forums?
21:49saritoraye lets do that
21:49saritorsorry for derailing :p
21:49barra_libraryalrighty, I'll make a thread about it
21:49barra_libraryback to graphics discussion
21:50barra_libraryconsidering that we plan to feature 2 different quests in the techdemo, there will be the need for a bunch of graphics assets
21:50barra_libraryprolly 4-7 different (N)PCs
21:50barra_libraryand a bunch of other models as well
21:51barra_librarythough it's hard to estimate how many assets will be needed before the quests have been fleshed out
21:51Sirren_I'm worried about environment assets
21:51barra_libraryso we should try to get these two quests fleshed out ASAP
21:51barra_libraryshoot Sirren
21:51Meinmartinishoots Sirren D:
21:52SirrenWee need a bunch of buildings
21:52SirrenI think I could handle a few more objects for inventory..
21:52Sirren_.. But buildings aren't my cup of tea
21:52barra_libraryso we'll need to find another 3d artist?
21:52barra_libraryfor the buildings, that is
21:52Sirren_Some more man power would be handy
21:53barra_libraryalrighty, I'll mention that in the news update at Monday
21:53Sirren_Yes, that's it
21:53barra_librarysorry for the lack of news updates lately, btw :-/ been too busy
21:53Sirren_No prob
21:53or1andovsorry i was pulled away, back now for a bit
21:53MeinmartiniShould you post that in the gamedev.net forums, barra?
21:53MeinmartiniA lot of artists can be found there
21:54barra_librarydo you think we could have 5-7 different (N)PC models until the end of the year
21:54MeinmartiniI know you already have an active thread, since that's how I found the project
21:54barra_libraryyep, we have a thread there Meinmartini
21:54or1andovcould we make do with very simple buildings?
21:54Sirren_Definitely so
21:54barra_libraryI bump these threads around the net when I update the news
21:54barra_libraryare you used to create buildings for Fallout Sirren ?
21:55Sirren_I'm not used to create buildings at all
21:55SirrenThe one I posted is practically my first one
21:55barra_libraryoki, we considered to rather create building from wall pieces so you could enter them without loading a new map
21:55barra_library* buildings
21:55Sirren_I think that would be needed anyway
21:56barra_librarywhat do you mean?
21:56Sirren-I mean, samee or different map, or you'll have to model each cave/floor separately
21:57barra_libraryyes and no
21:57Sirren_modular walls would be handy anyway
21:57barra_libraryif the interior of buildings would reside on separate maps, you could use a different approach
21:58barra_librarybasically render the building as one large object and use insible blockers
21:58Sirren_Probably so, but modular pieces would speed the process
21:58barra_librarybut I think that the modular approach is far more flexible
21:58barra_libraryyep, I agree
21:59barra_libraryfiguring it out for the first time will be a bit tricky but once we know how to properly create walls for PARPG, it should work pretty well
21:59MeinmartiniBRB
21:59barra_libraryalright, any mechanics-related topics you would like to talk about Zenbitz ?
22:00Zenbitznot right now
22:00ZenbitzI think it will be come more important later
22:00Zenbitzanyone have any questions?
22:00Sirren_I think the main issue lies in matching buildings/walls with the floor grid, for blocking purposes. After that is a simple matter of making something
22:01Sirren Uhm, stand/run/walk/use/pick up.. Anything else?
22:02barra_librarythese are the most important ones IMO
22:02or1andovwhat about some static flavor objects?
22:02barra_librarysurely or1andov, Sirren was asking about the (N)PC animations AFAICT
22:02Zenbitzforum posts made on 2 demo quests
22:03barra_libraryI think these 5 are a good start and should cover every possible use case in the techdemo
22:03or1andovbarra_library: right, more just thinking out loud :)
22:03barra_librarythe "use" animation could be used for drinking something as well
22:03Sirren_Five animations, done.
22:03amo-ej1(for my information, what's the frequency of these meetings ? )
22:03barra_libraryalrighty, that sounds reasonable
22:03barra_librarythese kind of objects will largely depend on the quests or1andov
22:04barra_libraryhmm
22:04barra_libraryactually they might not
22:04barra_libraryI think you were asking about items that are not quest related
22:04Sirren_Sorry, I'll have to quit you in 20 minutes..
22:04or1andovyeah just decorations
22:04barra_librarygood point
22:05barra_librarythey will be quest related nevertheless, as they will have to suit the setting of the two quests
22:05barra_librarye.g. if one quest plays in a bar room, you'll need decoration
22:05barra_libraryjust an example; so I think we should think about proper decoration objects once we have an idea how the quests will play
22:05barra_libraryping Zenbitz & Meinmartini
22:05or1andovyeah they're not a big priority imo
22:06barra_librarydo you think you could provide a first version of both quests until the end of the month?
22:06MeinmartiniStill here
22:07MeinmartiniUntil?
22:07MeinmartiniOr before?
22:07barra_librarybasically a list that features: quest giver, ways to complete the quests, objects / assets needed for the quest, quest setting (where does it take place)
22:07barra_libraryuntil the end of the month
22:07Zenbitznot important
22:07barra_libraryso basically 1.5 weeks
22:07Zenbitzon the decoration...
22:07Zenbitzuh maybe
22:08Zenbitzyou want all dialog written or just the art assets needed
22:08barra_libraryif it's not enough time, simply let me know :-) just trying to agree upon something realistic
22:08barra_librarynope, nothing totally fleshed out; e.g. for the dialog some notes are totally sufficent for the beginning
22:08barra_librarya list of items that used in the course of the quest would be rather important though
22:09Zenbitzalready done!
22:09barra_librarye.g. list of all possible ingredients for the alcohol
22:09Zenbitzso I guess, yess
22:09ZenbitzI have to go guys, sorry
22:09barra_libraryalrighty, great
22:09barra_librarylater Zenbitz!
22:09saritorlater Zenbitz
22:09Zenbitzcatch up later
22:09Sirren_See you Zenbitz
22:09barra_libraryso we should have a list of assets for the techdemo at the end of the month Sirren
22:10Sirren_Good. I'll rig my models in the meanwhile
22:10barra_libraryat least the ones really required for the quests; we can add more in case we still have time left at the end of the year
22:10amo-ej1is going to find something looking like a bed
22:10barra_librarygood night amo-ej1
22:10amo-ej1cya
22:10barra_libraryI'll try to set up your account later
22:10Sirren_See you
22:11barra_librarydidn't work when we tried yesterday :-/
22:11MeinmartiniAre we all that's left?
22:11barra_librarywhat do you mean Meinmartini ?
22:11MeinmartiniIn the meeting
22:11MeinmartiniJust us 3
22:11saritorim here :)
22:11MeinmartiniK
22:11KaydethI'm trolling
22:11barra_libraryany topics left to discuss?
22:12MeinmartiniI said I'd work on the dialogue for quests, but not actually develop any ideas for it
22:12Sirren_I'm set for now
22:12MeinmartiniBut I could, depending on how much time I have
22:13barra_libraryhmm
22:13barra_libraryI think what we need right now is somebody who could flesh out the fedex quest itself
22:13barra_libraryI'm not a writer so I lack the proper terminology :-/
22:14or1andovwe should just start 2 wiki pages for it
22:14barra_librarybasically fleshing out what's the quest about, who's the one who gives you the quest, what's his motivation
22:14or1andovand we can all take a look at it and contribute our ideas/suggestions
22:14barra_librarylist of quests at the wiki or1andov ?
22:14barra_librarythat sounds like a good idea to me
22:14or1andovyeah, and maybe a page per quest
22:14barra_librarythis way everyone is encouraged to contribute
22:14or1andovexactly
22:15barra_librarywe could use a category for that at the wiki, so all quests can be easily found at one place
22:15barra_libraryalrighty, I'll create the templates for the quests, and hopefully we can fill the blanks until the end of the month
22:15barra_librarydoes that sound like a deal?
22:16or1andovthat sounds awesome
22:16barra_libraryalrighty, thanks all of you for taking part in the meeting; I'll have to leave now for a friend to give him his birthday present; I'll summarize the results of the meeting at the wiki tomorrow and the news update will come at Monday
22:17or1andovbarra_library++ thanks for facilitating :)
22:17or1andovand everyone else for being here
22:17MeinmartiniSo we're not discussing audio or story
22:17barra_libraryI should have quite some time for PARPG tomorrow, so I'll take a look at the forums as well
22:17barra_libraryand prolly test the latest story engine code
22:17Sirren_I have to leave. See you all and have a nice Sunday
22:17barra_librarystory parts have been partially covered Meinmartini
22:18Sirren"Page closed"
22:18barra_libraryit's a pity that NOH and dave haven't been around; so I think fleshing out the two quests for the techdemo is the way to go as we don't have the important writers around to discuss the storyline merging proposal
22:19barra_libraryis there anything audio-related you would like to talk about?
22:19barra_librarysorry for not asking :-/
22:19MeinmartiniWell, just if there's any direction or any plans on seriously discussing the actual "plan" for it
22:20MeinmartiniIs it going to be proactive where we should be actively writing music, or reactive where the music is produced after several environments have been made?
22:20MeinmartiniShould there be a separate meeting for this?
22:20MeinmartiniIt'd be better if we had qubodup and Dave here
22:20barra_libraryI think it's up to the audio department, I can see both approaches working
22:21MeinmartiniThat's the thing. I've asked it a couple of times, but there doesn't seem to be much response
22:21Kaydethperhaps the quest will show us some audio we might need
22:21MeinmartiniI don't know who's active in the audio (SFX or Music) department right now
22:21barra_libraryyep, I think every quest or location features a certain atmosphere
22:21MeinmartiniGary sort of vanished
22:22barra_libraryI guess pretty much you :-)
22:22barra_libraryhaven't seen gary and dave lately :-/
22:22MeinmartiniDave's popped around a few times
22:22MeinmartiniGary I haven't seen at all
22:22barra_libraryI'm afraid some are scared away by the lack of updates lately, my fault :-/
22:23MeinmartiniDave's been taking on more than he can chew project-wise. It's to pay bills, so I'm not going to be critical of that
22:23barra_libraryespecially the ones who are not around in IRC that often
22:23MeinmartiniEven if it was for fun, I'm not going to be critical :P
22:23barra_libraryhopefully some old faces will show up again after the update at Monday
22:23MeinmartiniI don't really blame him since there hasn't been much discussion as to what to do with the audio
22:23KaydethMein, are you more of a music guy or sound effects guy?
22:24barra_librarynot really sure what we can do about it
22:24shevywell influx and outflux of a project will always happen... what should we say if Meinmartini isn't around ;)
22:24MeinmartiniJust music
22:24MeinmartiniAlthough Dave is working more with the story aspect
22:24Kaydethokay. I was thinking a good sound effects project is to get footsteps working with Sirrens animations
22:24MeinmartiniHe felt there'd be too much saturation of composers, but there hasn't been a lot
22:25MeinmartiniTimong has even vanished
22:27shevyanyone has his email?
22:27MeinmartiniI just want to discuss the overall route we're going to take the game score, not sit down and start writing a vast amount of music
22:27barra_libraryanything we non-composers could help with Meinmartini ?
22:27or1andovif we plan out what we would like to see done music wise it will be easier for people to start tackling that stuff without having to ask us
22:27MeinmartiniI know we want a Fallout-type feel
22:28or1andov*music/sound
22:28or1andovso people don't get blocked on what to do next
22:28MeinmartiniWell, not so much blocked
22:28MeinmartiniIt's just I'll start writing whatever I want :P
22:28or1andovand new people can contribute whatever they can do
22:29MeinmartiniHelp from programmers or artists just on some input on the type of atmospheres they'd like to create
22:29MeinmartiniLike when they're designing a dungeon, what type of atmosphere do you want: damp, dry, dark, etc
22:29MeinmartiniSo it can be reflected in the music
22:30MeinmartiniBut ideally, we're probably a long ways away from in depth designs, so I'm not sure
22:30or1andovyeah, i guess we'll have to consider that when working on the quest. but Meinmartini i think you have a lot of freedom to do what you think is right
22:30or1andovbeing one of the more active composers
22:30Kaydethwell we'll definitely need some village music
22:31or1andovi think you've done a great job so far
22:31KaydethI can't really comment on the feeling of it though
22:31Kaydethbesides small rustic village I guess
22:32saritorim going to slighty derail the music question some :p
22:32MeinmartiniIs it still too soon to be discussing sound?
22:32saritorwhere do sounds actually get implemented in the game?
22:33MeinmartiniShould we wait a bit? That's mostly what I'm wondering, too
22:33Kaydethwell. Sounds feels like more a polishing step
22:34Kaydethbut also I think it would make are project look better if we have decent sounds
22:34Kaydeththe earlier the better
22:35barra_librarysorry, have to leave for now! later
22:35MeinmartiniLater, dude
22:36saritorlaters barra_library!
22:36MeinmartiniMusic doesn't necessarily need to be in every map or mini-map. There can be scenes where there's just naturesque sounds
22:36MeinmartiniThat's another discussion we could have. How active should there be music
22:36MeinmartiniWhich is what's already on the forums that Dave started back in May
22:37MeinmartiniAnyway, I'm gonna head out, too
22:37MeinmartiniLaters, all
22:37Meinmartini"If you think nobody cares, try missing a few payments"
22:37saritorsee ya :_
22:37or1andovi'm not really sure where sounds happen
22:37or1andovmaybe when actions execute?
22:38or1andovmight be a good thing to create a ticket for to investigate
22:38or1andovor at least have a discussion on it
22:38saritoryeah, i mean i know that sounds.py or something exists
22:38saritorbut how are we going to differentiate between maps and such?
22:38saritoryou know what i mean?
22:39or1andovnot really i guess
22:40saritorwell i dont recall seeing data about sounds in map.xml
22:40saritorso there is going to have to be another method to track that it seems
22:42saritoryeah, you are right though
22:42saritora ticket should be made about it
22:45or1andovsaritor: do you mean like ambient sounds?
22:45or1andovor music associated with the map?
22:46saritorthe later
22:47or1andovah okay
22:47or1andovhrmm
22:47or1andovwonders if it could simply be an attribute associated with the map
22:48saritorpossibly
22:48saritori never really looked into it
22:51saritorwell i have to take off for a while, catch you later
22:56or1andovsee ya :)
23:54b0rlandMusic is hardcoded afair
23:54b0rlandSorry, I know it happened an hour ago
23:54b0rlandJust came back to peek at the discussion
00:00--- Sun Sep 20 2009